Is Brady forcing the Ball to EdelGronk? Two PatsLife writers debate...
NESN.com writer Doug Kyed posted a fantastic article yesterday outlining why he does not buy the popular narrative this week that Brady should be faulted for forcing the ball to his favorite receivers, and not sharing the wealth. I for one, strongly agree with Doug and thought his article was thorough and right on point.
My fellow PatriotsLife blogger, Michael Sullivan, disagreed, and we figured it would best be settled with a heated debate:
VS.
LC: Kyed's piece is awesome. This entire sports radio narrative this week of Brady somehow being at fault for not throwing the ball to Amendola and LaFell more is beyond stupid, even for the Boston media. I swear if I saw Felger, Mazz, or Adam Jones in person this week I would have punched them.
MS: Piece doesn't take into account the fact that Brady isn't looking at anyone else. Sure the pictures are nice, but Brady's eyes are locking in on Gronk and Edelman from the snap on too many plays. He doesn't know if anyone else is open. That's why the question of the level of trust has come up between Brady and Amendola, LaFell, Dobson, Wright, Hooman, etc. It shouldn't be evident on Sunday, but watch Brady's head after the snap, he isn't even looking off safeties which doesn't matter because as the article correctly points out the play designs are so quick safeties don't have time to get to the ball.
LC: I think he is locking in on them out of necessity. He got demolished in the Miami game and has no trust in his O-line. They adjusted their game plan for Minnesota accordingly so that each play had the highest level of success possible, even if that means a short yardage gain. And right now Gronk and Edelman are the most likely receivers to be open in a short window. Lots of three step drops and quick throws because I don't think Brady or McDaniels have confidence in the line to protect for much longer than that.
Is Brady supposed to throw to Amendola and LaFell just for the sake of getting everyone involved? So he doesn't hurt their feelings? I can guarantee if he was forcing throws to those guys he would be getting criticized for not throwing to his best receivers enough. I think Brady's skills are clearly diminished, but the criticism he has gotten this week is garbage.
MS: The end of the article cites that Rodgers has targeted his best 2 receivers even more than Brady. Difference is it has been effective. If Edelman had a 200 yard game (like Nelson) and Gronk had a bunch of TDs (like Cobb) no one would say boo. It may be out of necessity, but it certainly isn't anymore effective.
In the Miami game Brady got lucky at least 3 times throwing to Gronk in tight double coverage. Being way ahead to a bad Minnesota team, whose pass defense is questionable at best, really isn't the best game tape to decide if Brady is forcing the ball to anyone. I don't think Brady should throw it to guys "just to get them involved" but he should at least look to see if they are open, that is what he isn't doing. Its not that he is making the wrong read, he isn't making any reads.
Maybe it is because the O-Line has been pathetic in pass protection, but when Brady was at the top of his game he only needed 2.5-3 second to read the defense and get the ball out while making multiple reads. He is getting that on most plays and he isn't even looking at half the field most of the time.
LC: When Brady was at the top of his game he had a much better receiving group than he does now, and a better O-Line. The Patriots offense also used to run most of their pass plays out of shotgun, 4-5 wide spread formations, which is much more conducive to surveying the field and finding the open receiver than what they do now: 3-step drops and play action passes. The offense has changed because the personnel doesn't allow Brady to operate the way he used to.
My fellow PatriotsLife blogger, Michael Sullivan, disagreed, and we figured it would best be settled with a heated debate:
Liam Cunningham (@LC_NEP) Michael Sullivan (@HookingFoul)
VS.
LC: Kyed's piece is awesome. This entire sports radio narrative this week of Brady somehow being at fault for not throwing the ball to Amendola and LaFell more is beyond stupid, even for the Boston media. I swear if I saw Felger, Mazz, or Adam Jones in person this week I would have punched them.
MS: Piece doesn't take into account the fact that Brady isn't looking at anyone else. Sure the pictures are nice, but Brady's eyes are locking in on Gronk and Edelman from the snap on too many plays. He doesn't know if anyone else is open. That's why the question of the level of trust has come up between Brady and Amendola, LaFell, Dobson, Wright, Hooman, etc. It shouldn't be evident on Sunday, but watch Brady's head after the snap, he isn't even looking off safeties which doesn't matter because as the article correctly points out the play designs are so quick safeties don't have time to get to the ball.
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| Getty Images |
LC: I think he is locking in on them out of necessity. He got demolished in the Miami game and has no trust in his O-line. They adjusted their game plan for Minnesota accordingly so that each play had the highest level of success possible, even if that means a short yardage gain. And right now Gronk and Edelman are the most likely receivers to be open in a short window. Lots of three step drops and quick throws because I don't think Brady or McDaniels have confidence in the line to protect for much longer than that.
Is Brady supposed to throw to Amendola and LaFell just for the sake of getting everyone involved? So he doesn't hurt their feelings? I can guarantee if he was forcing throws to those guys he would be getting criticized for not throwing to his best receivers enough. I think Brady's skills are clearly diminished, but the criticism he has gotten this week is garbage.
MS: The end of the article cites that Rodgers has targeted his best 2 receivers even more than Brady. Difference is it has been effective. If Edelman had a 200 yard game (like Nelson) and Gronk had a bunch of TDs (like Cobb) no one would say boo. It may be out of necessity, but it certainly isn't anymore effective.
In the Miami game Brady got lucky at least 3 times throwing to Gronk in tight double coverage. Being way ahead to a bad Minnesota team, whose pass defense is questionable at best, really isn't the best game tape to decide if Brady is forcing the ball to anyone. I don't think Brady should throw it to guys "just to get them involved" but he should at least look to see if they are open, that is what he isn't doing. Its not that he is making the wrong read, he isn't making any reads.
Maybe it is because the O-Line has been pathetic in pass protection, but when Brady was at the top of his game he only needed 2.5-3 second to read the defense and get the ball out while making multiple reads. He is getting that on most plays and he isn't even looking at half the field most of the time.
LC: When Brady was at the top of his game he had a much better receiving group than he does now, and a better O-Line. The Patriots offense also used to run most of their pass plays out of shotgun, 4-5 wide spread formations, which is much more conducive to surveying the field and finding the open receiver than what they do now: 3-step drops and play action passes. The offense has changed because the personnel doesn't allow Brady to operate the way he used to.
MS: I agree that Brady's O-Line is significantly worse, at least in performance, right now, but I don't know that the receivers are that much worse than even 2007 when it was the Moss, Welker show. If anything Edelman and Gronk provide an easier time for a 3 step drop because when a QB is under center a slot WR and TE they typically run shorter routes. The play action problem is that no one believes that Patriots want to run, and doesn't have any problem stopping the run with 6 guys in the box. It has allowed the defenses to double Gronk almost everytime he is on the field and force Edelman off some of his routes. They are also forcing every other receiver off their routes for the most part. In Brady's history, when defenses push his receivers off routes he has always forced balls into "his" guys. When he was best his favorite receiver was the open receiver. I don't see him looking at more than 1 guy on most plays this season and that is where I think the problem lies.
So, what do you guys think? Let us know what you think on Twitter: @PatriotsLife, @LC_NEP, @HookingFoul
